Episode # 402: Dr. Barbara Oakley
https://outofthetrenches.podbean.com/e/episode-402-dr-barbara-oakley/
Barbara Oakley, PhD is a Distinguished Professor of Engineering at Oakland University in Rochester, Michigan; Michigan’s Distinguished Professor of the Year; and Coursera’s inaugural “Innovation Instructor.” Her work focuses on the complex relationship between neuroscience and social behavior. Dr. Oakley’s research has been described as “revolutionary” in the Wall Street Journal. She is a New York Times best-selling author who has published in outlets as varied as the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the Wall Street Journal, and The New York Times. Her book A Mind for Numbers, on effective learning in STEM disciplines, has sold over a million copies worldwide; Uncommon Sense Teaching is a critically praised guide to teaching based on insights from neuroscience. Dr. Oakley has won numerous teaching awards, including the American Society of Engineering Education’s Chester F. Carlson Award for technical innovation in engineering education and the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers William E. Sayle II Award for Achievement in Education. Together with Terrence Sejnowski, the Francis Crick Professor at the Salk Institute, she co-teaches Coursera’s “Learning How to Learn,” one of the world’s most popular massive open online courses with some four million registered students, along with a number of other leading MOOCs.
Dr. Oakley has adventured widely through her lifetime. She rose from the ranks of Private to Captain in the U.S. Army, during which time she was recognized as a Distinguished Military Scholar. She also worked as a communications expert at the South Pole Station in Antarctica, and has served as a Russian translator on board Soviet trawlers on the Bering Sea. Dr. Oakley is an elected Fellow of the American Institute for Medical and Biological Engineering and of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers and the American Institute for Medical and Biological Engineering.
Talk about your recent trip to NZ: she will take another trip in the next few months. Spent 6 months there, spoke all around the country. Got a good idea of teachers’ challenges. Awesome to stay a long time. Spoke at all levels.
Had an opt-ed in the WSJ 9/17/25 https://www.wsj.com/opinion/censorship-hurts-our-brains-d3b9ace5?reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
- You argue that censorship isn’t just a political or ethical issue, but has neuroscientific consequences for how the brain functions. Could you walk me through how diminished exposure to dissenting ideas might change neural wiring or habit formation in the brain?
f.ex. a small child grows up in a cult. Is exposed to the ideas w/in the cult. What it does is trains the brain. You don’t get used to others’ opinion. It gets easy to say “the others must be evil”. Ppl who move around tend to be more open & flexible to others. Relevant to K-12 education. Sometimes those ppl withdraw. Intellectual diversity leads to creativity.
- The article suggests that our brains thrive on cognitive flexibility, including challenge and dialogue, and that censorship undermines this. In your view, what are the critical brain‐processes (e.g., habit circuits, neuroplasticity) that are threatened by restricted speech environments? We’re still in early yrs of understanding how the brain works. Basal ganglia- involves how to walk, motor but also cognitive skills. F.ex. she learned to type, it was hard, now you don’t need to think about it. If you’re always exposed to ppl w/ the same ideas you don’t grow. You get in your mind others are “evil”. St’s need to be taught to practice it.In schools, there’s much less emphasis on teaching the scientific method for the last 30+ yrs.
- Many institutions (schools, workplaces, social media platforms) claim they are protecting people by limiting or moderating speech. From your research, how do we distinguish between legitimate protection against harm and the kind of censorship that harms cognitive function? Where is the line? There is no such line. Often throughout history, totalitarian govt’s have said “we’re for free speech”. They shut you down by accusing ppl of being racist. In the U.S, we’ve developed strong protections for free speech. It’s only as long as society says free speech is important to do. Any attempt to make a line “except for..”
- You draw connections between individual brain health (e.g., ability to learn, to adjust beliefs) and democratic culture (free speech, open dialogue). Could you share how you see that relationship playing out—in other words, how does the health of individual brains aggregate into the health of our public sphere?
Take teaching of math, f.ex. “Only smart ppl learn math”. Instead “learning math makes you smart”. Argument of the reading wars. Should we teach ppl to read using phonics or by reading books to them. Individual brain health plays out w/in a larger society. When ppl can’t read books in society it hurts us. - Looking forward: what practical steps or policies would you recommend—whether in education, public institutions, or technology design—to preserve or enhance the brain’s innate capacity for robust thought and dialogue in an era where censorship (both formal and informal) is increasingly discussed? they’ve created an online course where they bring the ideas of free speech to life. Every school could have it as training materials. It’s also helpful for families.
You teach the world’s largest MOOC (pronounced MuK), or Massive Open Online Course, https://www.coursera.org/learn/learning-how-to-learn we don’t get enough during teacher ed courses. It was free up until Aug. She’s speaking w/ ppl to get it to be free again. Direct free links:
https://www.coursera.org/learn/learning-how-to-learn?action=showPartnerSupportedAccess
https://tinyurl.com/speak-freely-think-critically
https://www.coursera.org/learn/free-speech?action=showPartnerSupportedAccess
Recent paper published, The Memory Paradox: Why Our Brains Need Knowledge in an Age of AI, co-authored with Michael Johnston, Ken‑Zen Chen, Eulho Jung and Terrence Sejnowski.20K Downloads. Neuroscience: why we have to be more aware of implications of AI. We have to think of ourselves as the guardian of expertise.
- Your paper argues that heavy reliance on external memory aids (like AI tools, search engines, calculators) risks eroding the brain’s internal memory consolidation processes—particularly the transition from declarative to procedural memory. Could you describe a concrete classroom or work-life scenario where you’ve seen this “memory‐atrophy” effect play out, and what the consequences were for deeper expertise? a few examples: in countries that follow constructivist approaches in their teaching, st’s construct their own knowledge. How that plays out is that st’s are turned loose in groups and have to figure things out for themselves. Papers suggest that’s not the best approach. In Finland, they’re finding that nursing st’s can endanger patients b/c they’ve learned through constructivist approach. They may prescribe too much med. F.ex. using chat GPT to help write a book. AI shows, but I’m the only one who knows.
- You draw a connection between the decline of the Flynn Effect (rising IQs in developed countries) and the rise of cognitive offloading via digital tools. (USUHS Scholar) How confident are you in this linkage, and what alternate explanations did you weigh (or dismiss) when developing your argument? What kind of further empirical research would you most like to see to strengthen or challenge this claim? We’re observing correlation not causation. We see it most strongly in Western countries who have have adopted a constructivist approach.
- In the chapter you critique “discovery‐based” or minimally directed pedagogies in favor of explicit teaching of knowledge and structured retrieval practice. (papers.cnl.salk.edu) As someone designing learning experiences, how would you advise educators to balance fostering critical thinking/creativity with the need to embed strong internal knowledge schemas?
You either have strong internal knowledge structures OR critical thinking. We build facts from empirical knowledge. We have to start w/ in underpinning of lots of knowledge. F. ex. if students mix the Civil War and Civil Rights you need a staircase & understanding of when things too place. Creativity and critical thinking. - Looking toward the future: Given the continuing rise of generative AI and ever-more powerful external cognition aids, what policy or design recommendations would you prioritize (in education, workforce training, technology development) to ensure that human internal memory systems remain strong and that humans don’t become over-dependent on “black‐box” external systems without sufficient internal grounding? In the past 100+ yrs, thinking hard about things make you free. Sometimes learning can be unpleasant. You just have to practice. Educators have been indoctrinated that memory is a “bad” thing. Put that aside & realize that ppl need to internalize things. What’s the information that the class must have internalized? Language teacher- you know what grammatical structures. In history/math you’ve been taught not to think in that way. Teachers need to be the sage on the stage & the guide on the side. The guardians of knowledge. The younger st’s are, the more important this is. What do I want st’s to be able to do (w/o Chat GPT)?
Trench story: as a professor, was working w/ a lot of research w/ pathological altruism. The work was used as an excuse to deny her a promotion. Fortunately, it told her to step back from doing service-related activities she was involved in. Since, she has gotten awards & promotions.
Out of everything: related to what we’ve discussed- learning to be comfortable w/ sometimes being uncomfortable can be a rewarding experience.
Where can ppl find you? www.barbaraoakley.com or coursera- 12+ different courses is working on new papers for ‘26.
View this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/4DABABFMov0
Episode # 403: Christine Connor & Brenna Muldoon
https://outofthetrenches.podbean.com/e/episode-403-brenna-muldoon-christine-connor/
Brenna Muld
oon is in her 23rd year in education. She is currently the K-12 Director for World Languages and ENL in the Burnt Hills-Ballston Lake School District in upstate New York and serves as the co-director of the NYCAL Exam Consortium and Chair of the Capital Area Language Leaders. She started her career as a German teacher in the North Colonie School District. She is the recipient of the 2025 NYSAFLT Remunda Cadoux Award for Leadership in World Language Supervision. She has co-presented with her colleague Christine Connor on the Seal of Biliteracy at the Day of European Languages at the Goethe Institute New York. She and Christine also presented at the 2024 and 2025 ACTFL National Conferences and the 2024 NYSAFLT Regional Conference in New York. Christine Connor spent her childhood and most of her young adult life in Germany. That is also where she completed her college education and teacher training. She received her Master’s degree in German, English and American Literature and Linguistics and Education from the Saarland University. After her student teaching she relocated to Upstate New York in 2008. For 18 years, she has been teaching German at the Middle, High School Level in the NYS public school system. As a Goethe Institute GEM, she has had the opportunity for the past 5 years to support fellow German teachers with their professional growth and expertise. In her capacity as a GEM, she offers workshops online or at conferences. She presented at the 2023, 2024 and 2025 ACTFL conferences along with other GEMs Brenna Muldoon. Brenna and Christine also co-presented on the Seal of Biliteracy at the Day of European Languages at the Goethe Institute New York and at the 2024 NYSAFLT Regional Conference in New York.
Tell me about a time you were in the trenches and how you got out (Brenna)
As a teacher, I found myself in a rut about 7-8 years into my career. I was lacking inspiration, did not love what I was teaching, and was simply going through the motions. My units felt stale and uninspired and I was not investing the time, energy, and creativity into teaching that I had in the earlier years of my career. I don’t know if I would really label this period as “burn out”, but I was definitely in a rut. With many years ahead of me in my career, I knew that it could not go on this way, but I didn’t know how to change or get myself out. It was around that time when a new colleague started in the department, who was driven, creative, and ultimately pushed me out of my rut. (That colleague is Christine :)). Her fresh ideas and energy were reinvigorating and challenged me to be a better teacher. I think that there are many times in our careers as educators when we are lacking inspiration and resting on our laurels. Seeking out colleagues or other professionals who have the power to reignite our passion and creativity is a gift. Sometimes we are lucky enough to find it within our own schools and sometimes we find it at local, State, or National conferences. Sometimes it comes from connecting with people on social media, blogs, or podcasts like this. I think the key is finding people who ignite our creativity, help us reflect on our practice, and ultimately push us to be better.
As an administrator, we are always in the trenches of advocating for our programs and ultimately validating the importance of what we do. As a department head for both World Language and English as a New Language, this advocacy sometimes looks different, but it is ultimately ever-present for both. We are always looking for ways to be relevant and visible. Some ways we do this are: presentations at BoE meetings, events for the community, school social media posts, promotional materials, gathering data and statistics, displaying student work, awards ceremonies, inviting administrators to Seal of Biliteracy presentations. Garnering positivity is key to leveraging support for our programs.
When I started teaching in the US, I quickly realized that there are many challenges German instructors face as teachers of an elective subject with program success depending on enrollment. Having to compete with other languages and electives for student numbers has been a constant tiring battle. Over the years, the situation has gotten increasingly worse for World Language Instruction with many states eliminating World Language credits as graduation requirements altogether and programs everywhere being cut without any hope of being reinstated. I feel very much in the trenches when I am exhausted from running an active German Club with many events during the year, a National Honor Society and many field trips to keep the program active and attractive. Every two years the German exchange with our partner school requires sheer endless hours of planning, organizing and traveling away from my own family. What happens in the classroom on a daily basis is even more important – only students that feel successful, appropriately challenged, engaged, and entertained will keep coming back year after year. Relationship work is crucial – if they don’t like you, they will not want to have you three or four years in a row.
I am not sure if I will ever get out of these trenches, but I took the ongoing battle as a challenge and took a leap forward towards a greater community of experts.
Tell me about a time you were in the trenches and how you got out. (Christine)
During Covid, I connected with the Goethe Institute and was lucky enough to have been accepted into their GEMS program. The Gems are General Education Multipliers that are part of a Network of Excellence established by the American Association of Teachers of German (AATG) and Goethe-Institut. GEMs offer workshops, professional development (virtual and in person), coachings and teaching materials. The ongoing exchange with other inspiring and highly effective experts that are on the forefront of the latest standards and best practices, has been a valuable source of motivation for me. Their work, the inspiring conferences and the workshops I am offering myself pull me out of the rut and the self-pity and remind me to do better.
Talk about the German program in their district: it stays as long as they have teachers but when teachers retire. Student interest? What are strategies diff. WL teacher have to retain st’s. like Seal of Biliteracy.
Spoke @ ACTFL again in ‘25, partially accepted, they’ve been combined w/ another one.
Both presented on Seal of Biliteracy.
Both worked together as German t’s 10 yrs. Created lots of materials together. Christine started @ Goethe as a coach in 2020. German teacher coach for Individual. GEMS- General Education multiplier-workshops. Seal of Biliteracy-first presentation-started when they first offered it-2017. Its’ relatively new in NY state. Most st’s who are eligible are in 12th gr or level 5. Choose topic, do research in the TL. They pick their own authentic texts and read in TL. In NY there is a matrix about how pts are approved. Tag der europäischen Sprachen-they had sessions about how they got the SEAL off the ground. NY State is revising graduation requirements. Seal of Biliteracy is highly valued. Brenna has the supervisor perspective, Christine has teacher perspective. Help w/ lesson plans.
Also presented @ NYSAFLT (NY State Assn). Conference for AATG- next summer in Boston (they just put proposal in).
Exchange program– every other yr. W/ a school in Saarbrucken. In ‘26 they’re celebrating 20th year. They go every 2 years. They don’t have enough st’s in U.S. to go every year. They send 23 students roughly. They have to find how many host families they have here first. German st’s come in the fall (during their fall break), they go on excursions. St’s from their schools go in Feb st’s last time. The st’s miss 7 days of school and need to be in good academic standing to be able to make up work. In Germany they pick kids based on the amount of families/ability to host diff. genders. Match based on hobbies, allergies. German kids stay for 2 wks. Go to NYC, Boston, went to Homecoming. In Germany they end w/ 4 days in Berlin. Brenna’s school district has a program affiliated w/ GAAP- they have some financial assistance. It’s expensive. The exchange is a really unique thing b/c they’re getting to know a family. Not every st will be able to go. When the German st’s are in the U.S. high school, everyone benefits from it.
What is something you want listeners to remember? (Christine)
While linguistic and cultural diversity are currently under threat, more so than we have experienced in the recent past, it is important to remember that what we do as language educators is more critical than ever. All students deserve the opportunity to connect to other cultures and communities and see their cultures and communities reflected in their educational experiences. In this moment, we have the power to broaden our students’ worlds, explore diverse perspectives, and help them think critically about their own experiences. The 2024 ACTFL Teacher of the Year, Kei Tsukamaki, said in her recent presentation in New Orleans, “Live your values” and “Children learn more from who you are than what you teach”. I think this is a reminder for me to think critically about decisions I make and to always question if those decisions are aligned with my values. Does the content I teach match my values? Does the way I present that content match my values? Do the decisions I make match my values? I think that these are important questions to ask ourselves as we define and redefine who we are as educators.
What is something you want listeners to remember? (Brenna)
While linguistic and cultural diversity are currently under threat, more so than we have experienced in the recent past, it is important to remember that what we do as language educators is more critical than ever. All students deserve the opportunity to connect to other cultures and communities and see their cultures and communities reflected in their educational experiences. In this moment, we have the power to broaden our students’ worlds, explore diverse perspectives, and help them think critically about their own experiences. The 2024 ACTFL Teacher of the Year, Kei Tsukamaki, said in her recent presentation in New Orleans, “Live your values” and “Children learn more from who you are than what you teach”. I think this is a reminder for me to think critically about decisions I make and to always question if those decisions are aligned with my values. Does the content I teach match my values? Does the way I present that content match my values? Do the decisions I make match my values? I think that these are important questions to ask ourselves as we define and redefine who we are as educators.
Where can you be found online?
https://www.goethe.de/ins/us/en/spr/unt/ffd/opd/gem/oge.html
Instagram: @connorfrau
https://www.instagram.com/connorfrau/
View this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/cS0fOTJauuU