Episode # 404: Josh Tovar
https://outofthetrenches.podbean.com/e/episode-404-josh-tovar/
Josh Tovar: Principal at Memorial Pathway Academy (6-12) in Garland Independent School District NE of Dallas since 2016 & Host of the #PGPPODCAST Sundays 5 pm
Trench story: he hears stories from my podcast. He has 2 stories. Cell phones will make or break us. 1st yr as an AP was in an affluent area. He walked into an ES school w/ a lunch detention, he moved kids to the stage from the cafeteria. 2 wks later a parent wrote about it in the El Paso times. He tried to not worry about the structure he’s set in place-realigned the culture. It’s part of the admin game that your name will be in the news. 2nd story- he was caught in the crosshairs of the political game. He has been featured in a book recently, telling this story. He was moved to another area of the district- HVAC or transportation. Was 7-8 yrs into AP career. They didn’t tell him why. It felt like a punch in the gut. They set him up for failure. Became the transportation supervisor. He refused to fret in the transportation job. 2 yrs later he was able to be an AP again. He stuck to his guns & did what’s right for kids. Has now been a principal for 10 yrs.
Talk about the recent article about you Principal helps Texas students succeed despite barriers: God closes doors to prevent you from being harmed. He understands the immigrant story having come to the US in the late 70’s to learn English. Educators wanted to put him in K when he was in 2nd grade. He self-medicated in high school and was a D student. His student population is a combo of immigrants and at risk kids. At his previous HS, he felt like he was “raising other ppl’s kids”. At Memorial Pathway, there are 6th graders-21 y.o. 262 kids. Kids from all over the world. 19 grads at winter break. There are a lot of low expectations for MLL kids. They establish routines, rituals, and ongoing support for the adults. Instructional rounds- 2000 in fall semester alone. 22 office referrals in fall semester.
Tell me about your school’s Newcomer ESL High School program, the Newcomer ESL Middle School program: Garland ISD had a newcomer center already established. His school is an academy,students have a “home school” they’re enrolled in. They’ve capped kids in Newcomer classes at 22, currently have less in the classes. They stay w/ him 1 yr. They’re not Title 1. They have 29 teachers. He doesn’t care if the teachers speak Spanish. His school is about creating the culture so everyone feels safe. Culture starts w/ the adults. Everything is based on Sean Keith’s The Fundamental Five. They use SIOP and exit tickets galore. During rounds, guests come in from other districts. Teachers aren’t “beating down the door” to apply yet. Some subs are impressed w/ the structure & quietness of the campus. Adults in some places have had too low of expectations for st’s. His belief is to push st’s because too many graduate w/ low expectations.
Social media involvement; started in 2008. Former HS he would take pictures w/ digi camera. Created DVDs for them. Ask yourself what your calling card is for your business? He went all in promoting- the scholars, he brought in schools from private schools. Kids played the bagpipes & did the Scottish dance. He got colleagues involved promoting on social as well. He won the kids over before winning over the adults. He won them over via social in 2008. He encourages parents where to go to find out things about the school. He’d much rather deal w/ promos on social media then fights.
His podcast: Host of this #PGPPODCAST Sundays 5 pm: He was approached by Unlock the Middle, when that podcast ended he teamed up w/ the Fantastic Four: Sean Hurt, Sheka Houston, Principal Kafele who asked him to be part of the Fantastic Four. He needed to connect w/ other Hispanic educators GANAS. He does interviews w/ educators in many different roles who are dealing w/ all the same things. Reach out to him to be on his show!
How do you do it all as a principal? He’s established patterns/protocolls, routines. His brain wakes him up @ 3:30, he’s at the gym at 4:20. Takes his kids to the bus. It’s a culture to make ppl feel comfortable- so parents are comfortable dropping their kids off @ the school. Be consistent in your patterns. Then ppl will know you’re doing what’s right for kids. WE-BE’s who are the “we’ll be here before you, we’ll be here after you”.
Out of everything: 2 things- kids/adults don’t care how much you know until… Never deviate from your beliefs. Show love, appreciation.
Where can ppl find you? Twitter/X: @MPA_GOJAGUARS @JTSOTLIGHTS
IG: @jtspotlightd FB: Mpa Jaguars LinkedIn YOUTUBE @ JOSH TOVAR
View this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/KTL5J3MbsbE
Episode # 405: Decoteau J. Irby, PhD & Dr. Ann M. Ishimaru
Episode # 405: Decoteau Irby & Ann Ishimaru | The Out of the Trenches Podcast
Decoteau J. Irby, PhD’s life work focuses on creating and sustaining organizations that contribute to Black people’s self-determined well-being, development, and positive life outcomes. He is Professor at University of Illinois at Chicago in the Department of Educational Policy Studies. He is the author of Stuck Improving: Racial Equity and School Leadership
Dr. Ann M. Ishimaru is an award-winning scholar, writer, educator and the Killinger Endowed Chair and Professor of Educational Foundations, Leadership and Policy at the University of Washington College of Education. Through her work, she cultivates the leadership and solidarities of educators, organizational leaders and racially minoritized youth, families and communities to realize more transformative futures. In addition to many peer-reviewed articles in top-tier educational research journals, she is also the author of Just Schools: Building Equitable Collaborations with Families and Communities. They are the editors of the new volume Doing the Work of Equity Leadership for Justice and Systems Change.
Trench story: Decoteau: started career working w/ youth in a GED program. St’s were court ordered to be in program. Started w/ reading activity. One started to read, another started to giggle. Chairs were thrown. He went back & asked st’s what they want their CR to be like. He sets collective agreements w/ st’s even at higher ed. He asked students if they noticed what he was noticing. Ann: co-design study, worked w/ parents, teachers, students across districts. Parents wanted to be part of the priorities. They stopped the action & there was a lot of tension. Ann felt responsible. She stepped away and put tensions back on the table. Asked ppl to think about how that related to school. Untangled situation, named dynamics.
How you two got connected: they didn’t start out thinking they’d right a book but were asking questions about equity work. Both had done work @ the school level. Many folks took on these roles at the systems level to change policies & practices. In 2016, they could segway into the research they took up. Three were brought together by Mohamed Kalifa. they’ve been in a longer term research project. Most recent phase is learning from those they’ve done research w/ in practice. Sometimes conferences are a place of convenience. Many ppl they supported were equity directors in districts. Practitioners don’t always take the time to write about their work. Researchers support the work those who are in schools. Those who are in the classroom don’t necessarily sit down & think about their practice. Higher ed were into promoting diversity, K-12 was already diverse.
Highlight your Book Get the book, Doing the Work of Equity Leadership for Justice and Systems Change: the schools they worked w/ were urban/suburban schools. First was talking to Equity Directors. Product of nearly 10 yrs of work. Periods of time: Morning (prior to 2020), Midday work- around 2020 (BLM movement), did a longitudinal study. They saw a lot of the seeding work happen. Institutional commitments started. Effort around workforce diversity. Collaborating across the 2 different phases is 3rd part of the study: Evening work-the pushback on CRT, bookbans. Push-back is “evening”. We’re in the “night”. Maury Sweeney- 1 of chapt. authors. Perhaps they can do a follow-up book, lessons in the last 10+ years as the context has shifted. How to build forward. We can talk about a few of the last chapters. They get us closer to today’s issues. Last chapter “Holding Space, Holding On”- talks about what is constant. They’ve seen a lot of ppl come & go. It focuses on turnover, precarity. Districts who are focused on relationships, tapping into how relationships & how they’re key in terms of changing practice. Coloring outside the lines- you’re supporting sped, LGBTQ students, etc. A piece about structure, procedures, processes. It’s about relational commitments. Conclusion was written in Jan/Feb ‘25- brings us up to the current political context. It speaks to the ingenuity in leadership that exists. A group of principals who developed a network/community of practice. All Black women. They pushed each other in terms of school improvement. We can often get bogged down in critiquing/complaining. We have opportunities b/c we’re interacting w/ students and stakeholders every day.There’s a necessity of attending to where that leadership exists, build upon to foster change.Make the efforts to sustain the work.
Teacher retention: What does it mean to recruit & retain t’s of color? We can talk about what Decoteau runs in Chicago that is about hiring teachers who reflect the community in 2018. At U. of IL Chicago. Males of color- start w/ talking w/ HS age boys. Research-based data about having male teachers of color. It’s like a brotherhood. Interview prep, field trips. How they talk about teaching is important. They challenge the narrative to help them pursue their passion. They compete w/ law enforcement in terms of caring. Sustaining & pipeline into leadership. They can’t draw a straight line necessarily from school board to superintendent.
Presenting together: this year they will be doing American Education Research Assn. conference to promote the book. They offer workshops around equity leadership- it will help ppl understand what they want to develop over time. Districts should have affinity spaces.
Out of everything: Ann: whether there were formal structures or not- ppl were coloring outsider the lines. Finding your ppl is crucial in today’s political environment. don’t wait for title/charge or permission. Engage in the efforts yourself! Decoteau: a new morning will come. Take care of one another. Things may feel dark now for educators, progress is cyclical, not linear.
Where can ppl find you? Get the book, Doing the Work of Equity Leadership for Justice and Systems Change
Visit Dr. Decoteau Irby’s website, www.DecoteauIrby.com he has a newsletter 6 x/s year is on IG, Linkedin, Fb @decoteauirby IG @decoteaublack @decoteaublack (IG)
@decoteauirby (Linked In and Facebook)
Visit Dr. Ann Ishimaru’s website, www.AnnIshimaru.com Linked in, IG, Bluesky
@prof_ishimaru for IG/bluesky
View this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/lb4FsHTKlTA
Episode # 406: Jen Otte
https://outofthetrenches.podbean.com/e/episode-405-jen-otte/
Jen Otte is an innovative educational leader with over 20 years of experience as both a teacher and an administrator. After teaching high school social studies for 17 years, Jen stepped into her current role as a high school associate principal. In both positions, and as a stepmom of two teenagers for over a decade, Jen began to realize there was a lot that she – and her fellow educators – needed to learn and understand about the teenage brain. She is the founder of The Teenage Brain Thing, a resource and professional development framework and action plan to help educators tap into the potential of the teenage brain. Jen believes that if teachers understand and embrace the unique needs of the teenagers sitting before them, then they will increase their job satisfaction, fall in love with teaching again, and see more academic success from their students. She has presented at the national level – at the NAESP/NASSP Annual Conference in 2024, and the AMLE Annual Conference in 2025 – as well as the local level in her home state of Connecticut, and is always eager to hear from and work with middle and high school teachers and leaders. Outside of education, she enjoys spending time with her family, her two yellow labs – Birdie and Bear – as well as riding her Peloton and traveling to new places (fun fact: she’s traveled with high school students as far away as China, Ghana, Nepal, and India!).
Trench story: when she taught 6+ yrs ago. Her admin experience is very reactive since it’s been since 2019. Feeling of trying to fit an educational mold. Taught mostly world history & sociology. DC guided her along w/ how her lessons should look. Jen felt uncomfortable & hated her job then. ½ way through the year she had a convo w/ DC about how Jen didn’t want to fit into her design. It morphed into her situation as a AP. Her personality is different than her principal. She doesn’t want to try to act/pretend to be someone she’s not. After the death of a teacher, she decided to call every student & parent b/c it fit her.
Work as an educator through the years leading up to current AP role: will address this and her story about gaining teenage stepkids. She met her husband through a former st. Took st’s on trips. Created a club called Be the Change. Went to Ghana in 2012 through a volunteer org. In 2014 a student said she should go out w/ her uncle. He had 2 children. They’re now 22 & 20.
How did an interest spark to research how teenage brains work? Shift happened when step daughter was in 6th grade. Jen worked through what happened w/ step daughter’s brain. When she moved into admin role, it was more about restorative practices. Worked w/ dean & school psychologist, put together a presentation on the teenage brain. It’s a lot of work. It’s not a one-and-done.
Will also highlight brain-based research: Dr. Francis Jensen The Teenage Brain. She did her AMLE presentation about Joy- how dopamine clears the pathway from the emotional to trying brain. The Incredible Teenage Brain– Bettina Hodin Every teen from generation to generation have the same innate needs. The limbic system- feelings of joy, safely, all live there. In 1950’s and earlier- they lived in the emotional brain. It’s hard for teens to regulate their emotions esp. today. The Disengaged Teen– Winthrup & Anderson. Book talks about a crisis in engagement, it’s why they seek out “easy out” like AI. So Awkward Podcast- they talk about the gamut of puberty. Their ability to regulate their emotions and come up w/ rational reactions are different. The Anxious Generation– incorporating play, carefree experiences previous generations had. At her school- teachers build routines by having phones in the door pouches. Give teens the opportunities to learn why phones harm their brain development. Tell st’s the goal of the class period. Engagement ties to agency. Fun book for parents ADHD is Awesome by Penn Holderness.
Blog: The Teenage Brain Thing Blog– 2026 goal is to interact w/ it more- wants to connect to topics related to motivation. She’s written about personal experiences. It runs the gamut of personal stories and connects to studies. Her ideas are morphing into a book- she’s hoping to finish in 2026. It will be a teacher’s guide to understanding the teenage brain.She wants it to be a useful resource. It will be a “choose your own adventure” piece.
Speaking, consulting, PD: mostly working on PD for school/district. Hopes to consult FT eventually. She has a three part WS that she can customize for districts. It fit into their faculty meetings. She does 2-3 day workshops. How to shift restorative practices & social-emotional wellness. How to incorporate music/movement into classrooms. It can’t be an “us vs. them“ experience w/ teens in our classrooms. When practices shift, kids & adults do better.
Out of everything: two things: the teenage brain (ages 10-25) is the most powerful & most vulnerable. There is so much potential w/in this age group. Nothing can get through the rational brain until it goes through emotional brain. Adults need to understand.
Where can ppl find you? www.theteenagebrainthing.com email jenniferotte@theteenagebrainthing.com
@the_teenage_brain_thing on IG
View this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/8KflS5pNxuQ
Episode # 407: Andrea Bitner
https://outofthetrenches.podbean.com/e/episode-407-andrea-bitner/
Return guest Andrea Bitner is an English Language Learner (ELL) educator, author, and speaker based in Philadelphia, PA. With 25 years in public education, she has taught K–12 students from around the world. Her debut book, Take Me Home (2021), shares the powerful true stories of 11 former EL students navigating bilingualism in America, while her second book, When Niagara Falls, inspires resilience, belonging, and growth for students and educators alike.
Andrea also co-authored The Impact of Influence – Volume 3: 100 No-Nonsense Things ALL School Leaders Should STOP Doing, and contributed to Culture First Classrooms and other works by Dr. Andrea Honigsfeld. Recognized by the state of Pennsylvania for her innovative teaching, she was featured in PSEA’s The Voice for her work with EL learners.
Currently, Andrea teaches EL students daily while traveling nationally to train educators on confidently supporting EL learners, connecting with families, and creating inclusive school communities.
Trench story: a student came in w/ outside armor- Mr. Tough Guy. He showed up, he said “I’m not working for that teacher”. He feels the teacher didn’t like him so he went to Andrea. They both walked down to the teacher & talked w/ him. It was a different side of him. It reminded her that kids don’t work w/ ppl they don’t like.
Second book: When Niagara Falls: from conception to publication and your thoughts around PD around the book. She has written an article and was asked to present. 2+ yrs in the making. Based on a true story. Ups, downs, etc. w/ a student who wasn’t willing to ask for help. She was being taught not to trust ppl. Andrea watched the student go thru the cycles of sharing everything in ES, then in 5th grade didn’t share. In MS she didn’t have success. In HS is now thriving. In 8th grade she started to thrive. She wanted to share about layers a kid has. Dug into what was going on. You have to have the most patience to have progress. Andrea’s worked w/ every grade level- in diff. classrooms supporting teachers. She created 3 poems getting t’s perspectives. In poem they explore “the door to more” about kids extending a hand. Gratitude letters to t’s. 1 to each level. As EL teachers they get to work w/ st’s for a few yrs so t’s see them grow. She’s received positive fdb from T’s & st’s alike.
Current political landscape and how it’s affecting your students: ICE is a topic all st’s K-12 are feeling. She then asks “is someone at your house talking about it?”. She states “I’m so happy you’re here”. She makes sure parents have information about what is legal & illegal. There is a flowchart w/ in the building IF ICE came in. They’re as well prepared as they could be. All staff has a sense of the process.
Conferences this summer: Virtual presentations in DE, SD in the spring. These are follow-ups. 1 hr sessions on collaboration b/w EL & content t’s. In Penn. has several conferences, “10 questions you should ask when an EL joins your class”. In summer she’ll be returning to some places.
Out of everything: Your voice is your power. Fight forward. We’re always better together.
Where can ppl find you?
Connect with Andrea at www.andreabitnerbooks.com or on LinkedIn, IG and Twitter @andreabitnerbooks
View this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Y1uM6BYeOSg