Episode # 423: Nate Hansford
https://www.podbean.com/ep/pb-2mpt6-1b4e3c3
Nathaniel Hansford has taught every grade from preK to 12th, in places as diverse as South Korea, the United Kingdom, the subarctic of Quebec, and Ontario, Canada. In 2022, he won the Literacy Leader of the Year award from the Ontario International Dyslexia Association. Has taught for 14 years. Nathaniel has written hundreds of articles on the science of teaching. He is most interested in using meta-analysis research to help teachers implement methodologies that have been proven to work. He is the founder of SAGE Online Academy.
He is the author of the following books: The Scientific Principles of Teaching
The Scientific Principles of Reading
The Scientific Principles of Reading and Writing Instruction
The Scientific Principles of Math Instruction (will be out before the podcast episode comes out- is self publishing on Amazon).
Trench story: challenging experience in an alternative school. 2nd teaching experience. It helped him become a better teacher. Became more resilient.
Recent article: (on science of reading):https://www.teachingbyscience.com/reading-comprehension
In your article, you suggest that background knowledge instruction may have a stronger impact on comprehension than traditional comprehension strategies. How should schools balance explicit strategy instruction with systematic knowledge-building across grade levels?
There’s no one size-fits-all approach. Don’t oversimplify literature. It might be true that literacy, history, science is undertaught. There’s a time & place for strategies. Taught grade 2. Taught the main idea of a text. In the early grades, what matters most is vocab. As st’s got older, there was more of a diverse type of skills in reading comprehension. Reading a non-fiction text, st’s will require more background knowledge. Strategies & background knowledge are important from grades 7-8. He recommends teaching non-fiction texts. It’s not always the norm in HS. There’s a time component to this. Benefits of knowledge tend to take longer. Don’t just teach strategies @ the beginning of the year. Anytime a student reads a non-fiction text, they should be asked to summarize it.
Many secondary teachers feel pressured to “cover standards” rather than deeply build content knowledge. What practical shifts would you recommend for middle and high school classrooms that want to improve reading comprehension outcomes?
He’s seen issues on focus on silent reading. Choral reading or popcorn reading helps. Need st’s to follow along while t is reading. Build in vocab & background knowledge into text. If st’s can’t pronounce it, they don’t know the meaning of the word. Break down & model the text. St’s were given a book to read @ home a few decades ago, then to discuss in class. A lot more time needs to be spent on writing. They improve each other. Writing direction is stronger than reading direction.
How do you respond to critics who worry that a strong focus on content knowledge could disadvantage MLLs or students with gaps in prior knowledge? What scaffolds matter most in that context?
Research strategies have less data on MLLs. Alphabets don’t always match. There’s been some resistance for MLLs in phonics instruction. Having more fluency/decoding practice helps. Background knowledge may be more than we think, i.e. social studies.
If a district wanted to redesign its literacy curriculum based on the research you reviewed, what are the first two or three instructional changes you believe would produce the greatest gains in comprehension? He’s tried to be comprehensive in the article and has submitted it for peer review. T’s have collective experience. Don’t throw out everything or fix everything at once. It’s too much of a shock for t’s to absorb. Have a balance b/w fiction & non-fiction. Before grade 3, we see gains in vocab instruction. Be mindful in how to use strategy instruction. Ask “What is the point of the story”? Valuable skill teaching how to research & write an essay despite use of AI.
SAGE Online Academy: has been running since Sept. Isn’t quite a full school- tool to help Tier 1,2,3 instruction for homeschool parents. He got more interested in coding, wanted to make a difference. Found parts of instruction he could decode w/ instruction. Covers many subjects. K-8 w/ some HS instruction. Builds intrinsic motivation. 50 ?’s, then you can play a game. It’s about making school fun. Pretty new. Original inspiration is for kids who need help w/ reading. Has done a lot of initiatives throughout years to support. This provides indiv. reading instruction. It doesn’t require a human right in front of student. It’s very easy to code what st struggles w/ into the app. Can be done w/ parents or teachers w/o a background in reading. It’s free- math & reading program. They pay a subscription to join. There is a monthly cost. If you want access to reading, math & games, it’s free. It’s a motivation tool. They get arcade tokens, can play w/ friends. T’s are encouraged to play the games w/ st’s. Often gets this ? from moms about st’s struggling to read and they can’t afford a tutor.
Talk to me about your new book, The Scientific Principles of Math Instruction, out by August: he’s a big believer in the use of research on math instruction. There’s a benefit from being able to understand research. First 3 chapters are on how to read research. The state of math instruction is worse than the state of reading instruction. Look at research reflected in outcomes, there’s a decline in scores in Canada, US, UK, Canada has gone up in the past year.
PD- he has offerings on demand.
Out of everything: teachers are smart. We’re often told what to think & what’s best practice. We should build up their self-efficacy.
Where can ppl find you: www.teachingteachingbyscience.com (blogs)
www.sageonlineacademy.ca/landing
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Nathaniel-Hansford
FB: @pedagogynongrata X;@natejoseph
To learn more about Nathaniel’s work in education, visit teachingbyscience.com, or follow him @Natejoseph19 on X (formerly Twitter). He is the author of The Scientific Principles of Teaching: Bridging the Divide Between Educational Practice and Research.
View this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/jEosmEaO9Ak
Episode # 424: Tom Hierck, Shan Jorgenson-Adam, Rita Marler
https://outofthetrenches.podbean.com/e/episode-424-tom-hierck-shan-jorgenson-adam-rita-marler/
Shan Jorgenson-Adam
Shan has been an educator for over 30 years working in a variety of educational roles (teacher, school administrator, director, assistant and deputy superintendent) in both British Columbia and Alberta. Shan has lead a research project on leadership development and co-authored numerous articles on leadership. Shan’s experience in leadership inspired her to co-author the book ““You’re A Principal Now! What’s Next” Shan has led literacy, inclusion, school culture, community engagement, strategic planning and leadership development in several school divisions.
Dr. Rita Marler is an educational consultant and former Superintendent with over 30 years of experience in K–12 education. Through JAM Educational Consulting, she now specializes in building leadership capacity, enhancing school and system culture, and professional development programs for educational leaders. She holds a Doctorate in Educational Leadership from the University of Calgary, a Master’s in Educational Leadership from San Diego State University, and a Bachelor of Education from the University of Alberta. Her consulting work is grounded in research, practical leadership experience, and a deep commitment to empowering educators at all levels.
Tom Hierck has been an educator since 1983 in a career that has spanned all grade levels and roles in public education. His experiences as a teacher, administrator, district leader, department of education project leader, and executive director have provided a unique context for his education philosophy. Tom is a compelling presenter and staff developer, infusing his message of hope with strategies culled from the real world.
Trench story: Rita: When she was principal, low place in district. They siloed. Senior leadership change. She was approached to put her name in to become superintendent. Created a culture of collaboration. Shan: AP role came up right as she was finishing up her admin courses. Mid-year. .3 AP/.6 computer sciences. Tom: when someone sees something you didn’tt see. First AP role. Culture, behavior. Not a great mentor, he found a lot on the job. Leaned in. We have to recognize the strength in others. Trench-related themes are about someone recognizing the strengths.
What circumstance got you three to work on this book together? Tom has worked w/ them over time. Worked w/ them in a variety of contexts. There was a good connection through PD they did together. Want to work elbow to elbow w/ school leaders.
Talk about your new book called You’re a Principal Now! What’s Next? Release date, who wrote what part, is it for principals only or would it help AP’s. How does this stand out from other books for new principals?
They were passionate about different aspects, Alex K. relational guy, communication is key to them. Edited each other’s chapters. It’s also a good book for aspiring leaders. A reminder for current practitioners. Let something get away from them. It’s written in a conversational manner. Divided into several topics they felt like were good topics.
Book description from website: Whether you’re a new or seasoned principal, you don’t have to navigate your role alone. This essential guide provides the trusted wisdom of experienced school leaders, offering practical strategies and insights to help you build a strong school culture, develop collaborative teams, and find joy in your rewarding position. Use book chapters to lay out questions: You’re a Principal Now! What’s Next? | Resource for Leaders
How Do I Communicate Effectively? Reach out & say you’ll get back to them in a few days. One-on-one is better than emails. Listening is a huge piece before moving fwd. Be in control of the narrative, the “why”. It’s key in terms of the message received. It becomes obvious there are 2-3 favorites on staff who get out the word. Tough convos, really important to not beat around the bush.
How Do I Manage Professional Growth and Learning? ties in w/ instructional leadership. Observe teachers a lot. You can take PD & tailor to staff. Talk w/ them & find out their needs. Prof growth plans can guide your PD. Prof growth is key, you’re still learning. Model as a leader that you’re still learning.Staff meetings shouldn’t be about procedures. Get away from “flavor of the month”. Focus on basics of literacy & numeracy.
How Do I Fit in My Additional Responsibilities? schedule your day. Stick w/ it. Change your phone msg to they’re observing classes. Everyone has strengths- ask a colleague to take it on. Check in on things you hand off. Some leadership teams have too many duplicate tasks, can share w/ others. Recognize leaders in others, but own the results. Still maintain the oversight.
The Book also includes some reproducibles such as prof. growth plan, PD planning guide, interview q’s, etc. it’s intended to be a “coffee conversation”, it’s about coming to table to have dialogue. Scenarios & insights. templates are fairly generic.
Training, consulting, etc: They can give school or district-wide. They can support schools.
Out of everything: Rita– it’s a journey, the position of principal is one of the most challenging. Remind self it’s OK, you’re on a journey. Shan: she loved being a principal, you don’t need to know it all, ask colleagues, don’t be afraid to ask questions. Build a support network. Tom: notion of being vulnerable. It’s hard b/c you have the principal title. There’s a reason why you were put there. Focus on ownership of the work, not buy-in. Do we continue w/ notions of growth?
Where can ppl find you online: Shan and Rita have a website: jamconsulting.ca & on LinkedIn
rmarler@asba.ab.ca She has instagram and X account
Tom: www.tomhierck.com @thierck on X, LinkedIn, FB. they
View this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/8s5IkuK8lZ4
Episode # 425: Priten Soundar-Shah
https://outofthetrenches.podbean.com/e/episode-425-priten-soundar-shah/
Priten Soundar-Shah (repeat guest from April ‘24): Priten is the author of AI & The Future of Education (Wiley, 2023) and the forthcoming book Ethical Ed Tech (Wiley, 2026). He is a visiting researcher at the Harvard Department of Philosophy focusing on developing philosophically grounded, practical approaches to teaching critical, ethical reasoning at scale. He holds a B.A. in Philosophy from Harvard College and an M.Ed. in Education Policy & Management from the Harvard Graduate School of Education.
Trench story (in past 2 yrs): as an educator, fall 2025- was teaching a class on epistemology. Helped them understand the value of their own knowledge. Said not to use AI. A student came up at the end and said she didn’t want to take the class if she didn’t get to use AI. Has spent 6 mos. trying to bridge ground b/w middle ground for use on AI.
What is his experience w/ educators around academic integrity policies around policing-related policies.There are sometimes easy red flags. Right policies will be how to reframe assessment. At some point k-12 we’ll need st & parent buy-in. HW can be solely a formative exercise. T’s need to ask there to be policies & buy in. School/district level vs classroom. Protective policy-AI use for training, marketing, vetting tools for profiling. AI in the classroom/screentime needs to be decided in the classroom. What can tech only provide? PArents & students need to know what’s happening behind the scenes. AI literacy convos. F.ex. essay examples, refining their practice.
New book, Ethical Ed Tech, comes out this May with Wiley. The book focuses on how educators can make thoughtful, values-driven decisions about ed tech and AI adoption; much has changed since we last spoke. A few topics that might be a good fit for your audience:
How teachers can evaluate ed tech tools without adding to their workload first thing he’d recommend about procurement, company/vendor reaches out. Pitches land in admin’s lap. What is the problem we need to solve? Then look for tools. Detach the sales pitches from the schools’ needs. Involve t’s in the process. Gather a team of t’s to evaluate tech tools. Include t’s who are sceptical about AI/screentime to have diverse perspectives.
Balancing student privacy with AI-driven learning tools-parent informed consent is very important. AI policy regarding protections aren’t clear. What risks are we willing to tolerate? Be cautious rather than optimistic. What regulations are in place for 3rd party vendors?
Practical frameworks for navigating real-world technology dilemmas in schools- infrastructure hasn’t always caught up to t’s needs, so the internet can go down in buildings every so often. WE need more than 1 PD session w/ the ed tech contract company. Provide training to st’s, parents, etc. about charging devices. We have limited time w/o tech w/ students, so plan around no-tech days/activities.
What ethical leadership around AI actually looks like day to day Most pedagogical ethical decisions are made by classroom t’s. Can also be by curriculum coordinator or principal. F.ex using AI detector, base it on biomechanics.Very similarly, t’s have to make those types of decisions daily. 5 qu’s he says are a good starting place- #1 are we doing something good for our st’s, are we avoiding all harms (“do no harm”). #2- informed consent #4- are we doing it in a fair way, are only helping GT or marginalized st’s? #5: care- education is different- relation b/w a st & peer is different than in medicine. St’s need to have a good relationship w/ peers in CR.
Talk about your podcast Margin of Thought-insert(new): born as part of research around new book. Informed his research. He has shared all the interviews as part of the podcast. F.ex. ACLU lawyer, how to think about ed tech around all sorts of policies. Comes out T & Th.
Will be at ISTE in July-what digital civics means in AI-world. Book talks @ NCTE- rethinking how we can think about writing. Inter
No need to add explicitly promotional material about our courses or professional development. We can just mention the book at the beginning and end if that works for you!
Out of everything: we need to keep talking to each other. It’s the goal of the book.
Where can ppl find you online: More about the book is at ethicaledtech.org– Website: Priten Soundar-Shah (Priten Shah) | Educator, Philosopher, and Entrepreneur has link to upcoming PD/conferences
View this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/kPph67e2oGs
Episode # 426: Liam Pace
https://outofthetrenches.podbean.com/e/episode-426-liam-pace/
Liam is an English language coach, communication trainer, and content creator based in Milan, Italy. With a background in language education and professional communication, he works with individuals and organisations to help non-native English speakers communicate with greater confidence and impact.
Alongside his coaching work, Liam co-hosts and produces the Beyond Fluency Podcast and YouTube channel, where he explores the intersection of language learning, personal development, and effective communication. His work focuses on helping learners move beyond grammar and vocabulary to develop the mindset and skills needed for real-world fluency.
Trench story: He’s still in there. Story was very different b4 he moved to Italy. Went back to study Chinese medicine. That was his main focus for 11 yrs. Obvious thing in Italy was to start teaching English again. First few yrs in Italy was being in trenches.
You’re lucky to get a FT contract to work in a language school. 0 hrs contract. One of the companies he was working for had a focus on using language learning methodology. Good fit for his background. Coaching, helping ppl. Thought about how to bring his school to a bigger audience. Doing 1 hr of English practice a week is practice. Able to explain complicated ideas. Colleague and him fit each other well, Rams went to film school. Started almost 2 yrs ago. We take for granted what ppl are going to say.
Our ideal listener is a non-native English speaker, typically aged 25–45, working or studying in an international environment. The audience is mixed gender and globally distributed, with a strong base in Europe and other ESL-dominant regions.
They are upper-intermediate to advanced (B2–C1) learners who already “know the language” but want to use it with more confidence, clarity, and presence — especially in professional and social settings.
Is making YouTube videos geared towards the B2 professional learner who feels stuck at that level. Like 80-90’s Saturday morning TV. Self & colleague have a conversation f.ex. about the path of least resistance. F.ex. their point of view learning Italian as a 2nd language. They try to find bridge b/w education & entertainment. Segment “guess the idiom”. Other example “say the word” w/ non-native speakers for a pronunciation challenge.
segments are 30 sec-3-5m. they have opportunity to play w/ the format. Seasons have themes. They will open selves up to share personal journeys,ie w/ learning a second language.
Tell me about your teaching background and what brought you to Italy: Taught from 2010-12. In London, particularly in the summers. Was teaching in off season as well. Put teaching aside to focus on the studies. Challenge of COVID changed things for him career-wise. Then he decided to teach English in Italy as he couldn’t continue w/ Chinese medicine.
How did you get involved in podcasting? did it also w/ Chinese medicine. His dad was a comedian, actor, so he’s been around performance world for a long time.
Out of everything: everything you want in life is on the other side of fear. Speaking a second language is very challenging. Always start slow w/ an English learner. Pay attn to the audience. Keep a steady speed. He hopes to coach companies in the future on how to have better convos w/ native speakers.
Where can ppl find you online: @Beyondfluency podcast on YouTube. LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/liampacecoach/
The Beyond Fluency Video Podcast
https://www.youtube.com/@thebeyondfluencypodcast/featured
The Beyond Fluency Audio Podcast
Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/5fzHKi4Plhvq7qsFcgzEkH
Apple – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-beyond-fluency-podcast/id1843343209
View this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Krr-FqU5FEk
Part 2: https://youtu.be/GJzTAdpezcQ